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I couldn’t find any reference points [in Govan] that were actual houses, so the nearest place I could recognise was the dry docks, I hadn’t thought about it that way… I thought I was just curious about the dry docks… but if you were to ask me where did you live [as a child] and where was your family I think I’d probably have to say ‘opposite the dry docks’.

There was 100,000 people in Govan at its peak so it was quite a famously populated and bustling place. I remember Scotland road as a wee boy but most of the actual stuff is gone… it’s completely unrecognisable.

[Compared to other heritage sites] It’s more interesting that [the dry dock] seems related to me somehow, even though I never worked in the shipyards or anything like that. I do feel that it’s part of my heritage as well as Govan and Glasgow’s heritage.

Obviously my life has changed completely and the family’s life has changes completely [since my childhood in Govan] and the dry docks is kind of a reminder. I mean it has changed but it’s still the same in so many ways.





It’s a slightly odd and contradictory thing because I’m kinda fascinated with the vibrancy and economic power that must have been there and I would like to have seen it at its peak but actually I prefer the idea of there being birds and fish coming back… I mean I’m more of a naturalist in a sense… I’m not really very interested in engineering or whatever. Y’know, there’ll be people here that [lament] the heyday of ship building, many people, me too in a way… but I would rather there were fish in the Clyde than there were ships being built here if you had to choose, d’you know what I mean? So even though it’s declining, another aspect of it is getting better.

All these areas… they were something else and they will be something else.

There are places like this all over Glasgow. They are distinctive to the people who live there but [when developed] they all turn into the same kind of thing. The docks [staying] here would be a great anchor for the history of Govan.

[BAE systems] is just like a modern shipyard plonked down on a bit of river. I don’t believe it’s much like what the shipyards would have been… and it’s only a military shipyard, it only exists because of military contracts… and people are not going in and out of it, its not like it was. It’s almost like a sealed capsule of military shipbuilding.


I think life will return. In a way, it was a lovely surprise that the dry docks were still there in as recognisable a form… I mean I’ve heard people describe it as a wasteland and a mess and all that and to regenerate and get rid of eyesores on the Clyde like the dry docks. The idea to [regenerate in a way that] preserves it is fantastic, so I think in that way, the tide will come back in.

Just like all of these waterfront things it’ll be gentrified and it’ll be different but I think the physical stuff is a reminder and it’s a relationship with the river… but I wouldn’t be surprised to find the whole thing had been filled in or cleared away… so, I think you’ve got to be realistic.

I think actually those shipyards brought fantastic prosperity but… I wouldn’t want any of my family to earn a living in that way with asbestos and all the other stuff. So I don’t really feel nostalgic for a day when people earned a living in that way, I feel nostalgic for the product of it in terms of relative wealth and a vibrant community.


I’ve also discovered some huge graveyards and … I don’t really like graveyards, I don’t really have an interest in death or memorialising haha! It’s simply that they’re quiet compared to everywhere else and I need somewhere to be quiet for a wee while… and I think that’s the closest place to me where I can walk undisturbed for an hour… it just happens to be a space that other people don’t find attractive.

I love Kelvingrove, I mean there are times when I walk there in the summer and its full of people, it’s so cheering and all the students are there and it’s and uplifting experience. But it’s just during my life at times when I’ve had enough of people for a while and I need a wee bit of- I’m quite introverted and I need a bit of space to recover and reflect. I do a lot of thinking, so somewhere to wander without having to step round people or jump out the way of people or be nice to someone’s dog… In Govan I can wander lonely as a cloud.

If there was some other industrial site that’s big enough then it would do as a sanctuary. It’s a good size, I think [on smaller sites] I wouldn’t feel the same way at all.


Because it’s a very unique part of the city [Govan], compared to a lot of places in Glasgow. Just the fact that it’s got a community and it’s still got a characteristic. Y’know it was a very kinda socialist community as well I think. And I guess like - you kind of feel that the docks there are just still hanging on to what was. Even [by] the fact that they’re [open] and it’s not been completely shut off.

I’ve been in Glasgow for 12 years and there’s no way I felt any sense of community [like in Govan]. I know my neighbours names on my street and talk to them and stuff... But it’s that heritage! Because Govan, although it’s a diverse area, it’s definitely got this real tie to the past and to the shipbuilding. And just to that working class connection. It’s still alive.

And it’s interesting, my lodger who moved in a month ago, he works in shipbuilding in BAE but he’s a Geordie. And he’s a real union man. He’s like such a shipbuilder and his grandpa was a miner. And he was telling me how his dad was out in all the mine strikes an all that. So he’s kinda got this sorta heritage that Govan has of this skilled working labour with a real pride to it.




In spaces like the docks other people will just kind of get that you’re just having a wander… In a space like that I think that people kind of appreciate that people are going there to get their own space. I’ve never chatted to anybody down there. I’ve probably just kind of like left them, you know…

I think we all crave that, really. I think as human beings you kinda crave to have like, your own little adventures. Maybe it’s about challenging yourself as well. When you’re challenging yourself you kind of… you feel alive





There are these three young guys that I know through my business that I had. And they had come over here and then they’d done acid and gone down to the docks. ‘Oh my god!’ Hahaha! I thought ‘that’ll be an interesting experience!’ Haha! Like for them it was like- cos they were talking to me about it afterwards and the experience of it y’know- so it just shows that there’s something about the place that sparks the imagination. And I guess that that wild space kind of allows the imagination to run a bit.

Like when you’re in wild spaces you kind of have to sharpen your own wits. And [in the docks] some bits are really slippy. It’s just that sense of that aliveness of –like enough of a sense of danger that you have to think. You have to be aware of being there. It’s very very much–which I hadn’t really thought about before- it’s about when I’m there I’m not daydreaming about other things. I’m looking at what’s there and the way it changes and y’know I’m very present there when I’m in that space. And walking around spaces like that, you can’t just let your mind go in a daydream somewhere. So it’s much easier in that space to be present I think.




I think if you grew up rurally then – maybe because you’re safer to roam and safer to explore. Y’know, kids that grow up in the country are just way more comfortable with being out and y’know climbin over trees an kinda getting dirty an that kinda thing than kids who’re just used to parks and streets and maybe haven’t had the freedom? They’ve not ever been given the freedom to like wander off on your own see whats over there.

It’s the heritage that keeps it interesting and connected with the history of Glasgow because I’m not from Glasgow, I’m not a Glaswegian. Glasgow is one of these places where, there’s a lot of people who grew up and stayed in Glasgow. There’s a lot of Glaswegians in Glasgow! So do you feel like an outsider in someways? Oh… I’d say so! But I feel like an outsider in a lot of places! Hahaha!

Although it’s the wild place that I get from being at home it’s not what draws me there. It’s not like I feel like I’m going home when I go there.


It was the kind of place my mum would say ‘don go in there, it’s a bit dangerous’. And you could see it was but at the same time, you’re a kid and you don’t care as much and if your mum tells you its dangerous you’re probably gonna go there even more!





And yeah, you meet people - that’s all part of it. It’s like always quite an enjoyable conversation or you’re gonna take something from it. I’ve never spoke to someone down there and left without a story to tell. I couldn’t say that for many other places. Which is why it’s such an interesting place, you can talk to other people about it.

Seeing the way it was in the summer [with so many people using it after lockdown]… That’s the kind of thing that you would have liked developers or somebody to have seen, to have been there that day that I was there- it would have been impossible to walk around and say ‘oh this place would be much better if we just put houses here’ y’know! You walk around on a day like that and see so many people enjoying the space in their own way- an every single person’s sittin there with a smile on their face and happy and they’re enjoying using the space. Cos’ [everyone’s] doing what they wanna do down there, that’s the dynamic of the site I think. And that’s what I find interesting, people do have completely different views of it and what it means to them.





I’m sorta already consigned to the fact that somethings gonna happen there. Its jus a case of use-it-as-much-as-you-can-til- it-happens. Maybe I don’t have as much negativity around that as other people do. I mean I love the place, I don’t want it to go –but also, I mean it’s not going anywhere, it’s jus maybe gonna have a different function or be used for another purpose.





I didn’t grow up seeing it in use. To me it’s always been derelict, I’ve never seen it having a function. I think that must make a difference. I guess if you’re 50 years old and been living in Govan your whole life, you had friends and family that work there and things like that, you’ll definitely have a different attachment.

I think about that a lot. Primarily because of my grandpa. He left Glasgow in the 60s and he never came back. He just moved to New York and that was it. I jus wish he woulda came back. I just think that so much changed- if he left Glasgow in the 60s, the difference woulda been like insane. So, yeah when you’re walking about [in the docks] it does give you that image ‘oh maybe this is what Glasgow was like when my grandpa was walking around, he’d have seen this place in full use’. So I guess its like holding on to little things like that… I think maybe because I didn’t spend that much time with him too. Because it’s like we were never really with each other that much to sit and talk about all this stuff so it’s more like in your head, ideas an wondering about it… I mean like in my whole life I probably spent like 30 days with him. [And now] it’s just me that’s here. It’s just me. So if I go somewhere, its like the whole side of the familys just gone in a way so… it kinda just makes you wanna stay.





Yeah, it wouldn’t have been as fun to walk aroun there 15 years ago or 10 years ago for sure. Yeah definitely not. It was all overgrown and pretty dangerous to be honest. A lot of drug users and stuff like that. But, I was jus a little kid, I didn’t really worry about it. I’d jus run away if things got bad hahaha! We were alright! I mean it was a strange thing like it was unsafe but the fact that you were way more hidden sometimes felt like it was safer.

Yeah, he’s funny. I’ve met him a couple of times down there. He jus sorta talks at you. I think he jus likes to get outa the house so he can get someone to rant at- his wife’s probably happy that he’s outa the house as well to be honest so she gets peace for a while!– Yeah, some people jus want someone to talk to. It’s a nice thing obviously. Especially nowadays [with Covid restrictions]. That guy mighta usually gone to a pub on a Friday or something and met his pals and he’s not doing that anymore.

I’m happy just going down there myself. I feel safe, you can sorta see what’s coming from most angles and on a nice day there’s nothing better. If you’re there on a nice summers day it’s just- some of the best days I’ve had just sitting down there by myself enjoying the sun.





My life would be a lot sadder without [graffiti] that’s for sure. You need to just do things you like don’t ya? Haha! What keeps you happy, that’s what keeps you sane. I know I would loose my mind if I wasn’t able to go out [and paint] sometimes. I mean if I haven’t painted for a couple of weeks I’m probably not nice to be around. I’m not that bad! But y’know I’m sure if you asked my fiancée, she would notice. And she would just say to me y’know ‘go out and paint, get it off your chest’. I’m just not my usual happy self. It is [a meditative thing] for sure!

That’s all it is really, it’s just good memories. Good feelings you get when you go there and you think ‘oh yeah I remember that sunny day we were sitting over there havin a BBQ’ ‘that time we watched the fireworks here’ ‘that time did- y’know they all come racin back all at once. When you go [to the docks] it’s almost like steppin into a time machine for me, way more than other places. It’s just the fact we’re having fun there! Or because of the fact I’ve been there with so many different people.





Basically I’m an anti-globalist, what can I say? Haha!... I just don’t see what’s wrong with local governance and making things for people locally as far as you can.

[When we talked before] there was an old white haired guy who stottered past. An he’s blitzed all the time. But he was a guy who woulda worked an things around the place an he’s got an ambition level in him which means he gets out an he wanders all over the place! Slightly aimlessly, but he doesn’t jus sit n stare at the TV or something. He’s got the ambition to get out n do something even if it’s pointless. An these people have jus had their purpose taken away from them… But y’know, these people are drinking themselves to death. Their sort of place in the world doesn’t exist anymore.

Everybody’s being thrust into universities whether or not it’s really the right course for them. Y’know we’ve got a shortage of electricians an plumbers but we’ve got no shortage of people who’ve got a degree in management!


The artisans do have a respect for the heritage. They love that [The Shed is] an old shipbuilding building. They’ve got that degree of respect for the history and the heritage. And that is important but it doesn’t connect to the original people who were there.

Once [the mooring bollards from the docks] were stolen … We said [to the developer] ‘Listen, we’ll get a trailer, go up, collect them from the fragmenters and we’ll even store them’. So it wasn’t like it was gonna cost em anything at all or cause em any problems or anything. Yet they just sorta ignored our offer and said ‘No, scrap em an give us the money’… You’re talking about people who’re multi-million pound housing developers and they care so little about it that they literally would rather just grab a few hundred quid in scrap value [than preserve heritage features].





The trouble is behind us but now it’s in front of us in a different form. The niceties that have come to Govan, as result of these things, might all fall apart. If people are struggling and people are in debt and people have problems then there will be crime.

There’s a funny old saying that goes around in construction that’s ‘you may have a Bentley but can you hang a door?’ Haha! It says you’ve got all this money and all these resources but could you actually make things happen?... Do you have any sort of survival skills? Can you make things? Can you do things? Can you figure out how to solve problems? …When you can’t afford the payment on your Bentley.

Graffiti is a great indicator of how much people value the civilisation that they’re in. If you value the civilisation that you’re in, you don’t wreck it. Street art comes from artists trying to make peace with graffiti… and trying to make the place pretty but it doesn’t get away from the undercurrent problem which is there’s people in the world that don’t value the civilisation we live in because they’re disenfranchised.


It’s a hold out for a lifestyle which I would say is more desirable. And ultimately it has to happen. It has to happen, there’s no point in saying otherwise. … There’ll be a lot of upheaval but the upheaval will be the situation that allows these artisans to build that future. And make a society where we make things locally.

I dunno, you look around and see people that just don’t have skills which people of their sort would have had 30/40 years ago. And they don’t have a scoobie how to do anything. And they’re almost terrified of the world because there’s a great calm that comes from looking at the world and saying ‘I know exactly how everything works… I know how to fix it if it goes wrong’... If nobody knows how anything works, society’s extremely vulnerable to complete collapse … And that’s fundamentally a weakness, it’s files with no backups.





Govan’s a wee bit like that in a similar way. Unless you’ve got a great history in Govan, you’re an outsider effectively. Slowly over time I think we’ve become a wee bit more accepted.

I think that [the connection between the historic skilled labour force and the new population of skilled artisans] is possibly something that’s neglected. And it’s something that if it doesn’t happen fairly instantly, it’s never gonna happen because the skilled labour population is a dying art.

What the artisans are doing is keeping alive skills almost as a background to the loss of the skilled labour… They’re an artier bunch that are incomers to Govan effectively. And that is what it is but the skills that they’re maintaining are no less important y’know. It’s the ability to weld and do carpentry and all sorts are skills that we need to maintain in society.


I do want to see it done up. I don’t want to see it done up as in posh houses and whatnot an it jus looses any sort of character.

I think [I’ve always had] the idea that ‘oh something’s gonna happen, something’s gonna happen’. Now I’m at the stage where I don’t think anything will happen at the dockside for the next thirty years. There’s just not gonna be the money, it needs big investment. I don’t see there being any sorta meaningful development of it. But, we’ll see what happens. It’d be a shame if they fill in any of the docks. I think that’s not on.

I’m not actually sure if there’s a place for me in this world. If this is really where it’s going. It’s just a false image based society. It’s not about how you actually do something, it’s about making it look like you can do it y’know… It’s all ‘look at me and my Bentley on Instagram’. It’s not ‘look at what I made today, look at how I improved the world today, look at what I crafted today, look at whose life I made better or look at what I taught somebody’.

Additional recordings of writings:

River silting, watered common: reimagining Govan graving docks. Ruth Olden, PhD thesis.

Alexander Patersons Environmental Survey

‘Edgelands of practice: post-industrial landscapes and the conditions of informal spatial appropriation’ Imogen Humphris and Ward Rauws

‘Getting deep into things: Deep mapping in a ‘vacant’ landscape’ Imogen Humphris, Lummina Horlings and Iain Biggs*

Govan Dock Regeneration Trust

Riverside Solidarity Project

Memory of Water- artist led project

* a review of the arts research process behind the creation of this site to be released later this year